Cultured Magazine

156 culturedmag.com is our two exhibitions at Gagosian have shown what the new audience looks and feels like and what they're intrigued by. That Takashi and I have been able to make work that represents that community is quite inspiring. SR: That kind of leads into my next question. In Western art history, there's a pattern of a group wanting to overcome the institution and develop a new system and then becoming the people in power. We're in a moment where that's happening with you becoming that establishment. How does that feel and what does it mean for the people that might come next? VA: For me that's part of the motivation. As the world evolves, we should feel it evolve. I think the establishment should evolve to give new opportunities. I see that as what unites Takashi and I. In the 10 years I've known him, I've seen his work with Kaikai Kiki Gallery and I've learned about many of artists he has given a platform to through his own work. Mr. Madsaki is a favorite artist of mine who I was introduced to because of Takashi's generosity. I learn from him. TM: People in the artworld are probably still looking at this collaboration coolly and not too enthusiastically, which is the way it's been since my collaboration with Louis Vuitton. Maybe in 10 years someone who is lining up outside to buy our collaboration T-shirts will become a famous designer and say, "Oh, that was my inspiration." Maybe then we'll know the kind of effect this had. At this moment, at least in the artworld, the perception is still a little bit cool. SR: You both exemplify a breaking down of the accepted difference between a brand and an artist. How do you feel you embody that shift and what are the implications of it? VA: It's hard to compare artists, but the ones that sort of represented a time or were leaders of a movement treaded the line between name as brand and artwork as brand as an extension of their identity. More than anything I think we're behaving in a modern way and we're not letting any perception hold us back, which is the ultimate freedom. The only way to really measure these moves is to wait 30 years and see. TM: There is a zone of supremacy in the art world and there is a sense that fine art is the most precious and has the highest status. My collaboration with Virgil is trying to create something that is completely outside of that framework, so I totally understand why the reaction is not warm. And I believe that even though Virgil is young, the achievement of our collaboration will become apparent after Virgil has died. Right now, there's not much we can do about the reception. Of course, I care about the reception, but I feel like we shouldn't care about it and keep on, because in the future, I think this collaboration can become part of a history that will recognize what we did. I think that at least a few young people are really looking at it now, and, like I said earlier, it would be great in 10 or 20 years from now if I'm still alive people will say it affected them or it inspired them. SR: I think it goes back to something Virgil talks about a lot, which is the role of Duchamp behind all of this, and Duchamp's presentation of the urinal as Fountain, and what that means about what art can be and who can be an artist. VA: Yes, I think that essential to your question is intention and the practice that predates output. Takashi and I are figureheads of an intense study that has taken place over many years about something that speaks about art now. Trying to define art or what makes an artist is an age-old question that may or may not be at play. I don't know if I'm answering your question, maybe Takashi can take it from there. TM: It's destiny that Virgil has become the designer of Louis Vuitton and now Louis Vuitton has come to have a world-class museum, the Louis Vuitton Foundation. It's become so complex now, and it's not just about artists tr ying to transmit their ideas, from the brand side they're approaching the art and artists as well. So people who understand the context of art are not only interested in what artists are thinking but now they're really in tune with the market and the environment surrounding art. Museums used to be just nonprofit organizations with a benevolent existence, but now it has to do with branding as well, and Virgil and I are also involved in fashion brands but the collaboration itself is between the creators and doesn't really have to deal with the brand. It's very complex. It's that huge wave I was talking about that we've been surfing. When I heard that Virgil became the designer for Louis Vuitton, it was around the time I was writing an introductory article for him because he was chosen as one of the Time 100. I really felt it was some kind of fate. Maybe I think that way because I'm old, and maybe Virgil is still laughing in his usual laugh— VA: [Laughter.] Installation view of Takashi Murakami and Virgil Abloh TECHNICOLOR 2 June 23 – July 22, 2018 Gagosian Paris - Project Space

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